The days of a job for life followed by a gold watch with a pension have gone. Now we can feel lucky for a one year contract. Very handy for securing a mortgage, forward planning etc. NOT NOT NOT.
Along with offers of "borrow tons of money from us and don't worry about it" I wonder how much more difficult it is for youngsters today. Credit is just so available now, affordable or not.[ debts and property prices means that for so many, buying a house is out of reach.
Talking to no. 1 daughter and her friends they all seem to feel a bit helpless.
nanny-now and forever
i think it is more difficult for youngsters because they seem never to think about having to go without to achieve what they want.........oh and they have huge student loans as well
but kids in the states have worked themselves through college ever since i can remember so it isn't a foregone conclusion surely that you have to leave with a huge debt?
mr nanny's son worked his way through a 4 year masters at durham and left with a degree and no debt at all.............
when most of us started out, we had a mortgage that ahd to be paid and i would venture to say that many wives didn't work then so times were tough and you pinched pennies and went without
no one seems to go without now.........going without means you have to wait a week longer for a brand new mobile phone now, not waiting to be able to buy a washing machine because the car has to be taxed or even more often - repaired..............
Haize
I'm a youngster Ish.
But then the only reason we have been able to buy our house (and the car we had whilst studying at uni) is because we have been together so long, and it definitely does not cost twice as much to feed, house, and keep warm two people.
Plus my mum's life insurance made my dad able to lend us the deposit, otherwise we'd have had to wait a year longer before even contemplating getting a house.
It is strangely easy to borrow money at ridiculously high rates (e.g. credit cards @ 19% pa), but surprisingly difficult to borrow large enough sums at the sensible rates of mortgages. It is as though the only ones following "responsible lending" rules are the mortgage people, but they are the ones who's interest rates are not crippling, which seems backwards to me.
Apparently credit cards are supposed to all be being integrated into one database, so that any company you apply to can see what funds are available to you elsewhere, so that the people cannot end up with unmanageable potential debt. This can only be a good thing.
And now some banks are lending up to 5 times your salary for mortgages, which must have helped some people.
I've never been able to figure out why the income multiples are always lower for couples, when surely two people earning £20k actually take home more than one person earning £40k...
Cabbagepatch
Agree with you nanny, the "i want it now" attitude is so wrong and I have no time for it.
But when I compare the mortgage I had as a young twenty something = income, is now beyond compare. To buy a home now means borrowing massive amounts of money. When I lived in Italy the majority rented and spent their spare money on clothes, entertainment and eating out.
Maybe the time will come here when properties are too expensive.
Haize
You're very right there, nanny, most of us youngsters (when do I have to give up this status? ) do expect to be able to continue spending money like water.
The student loan amount is about £5k per year, which is plenty enough to live on IMHO, and if you work over the summer, all that cash could be saved, or you can go out drinking, or you can buy stuff. We went for a combination of stuff, a car, and better food What can I say, it is nice to enjoy yourself.
But what I don't understand is how, when most of our friends found jobs after uni, they suddenly had maybe double the cash coming in, and somehow, it all disappears... Most of them bought themselves a "reward" for getting their first serious job (examples being a Prada handbag and shoes, or a newer car, and so on). So they didn't save any money then, and maybe they went out for a meal every month, and bought themselves new clothes. And they got used to being able to do that, and now most of them still have no savings, and yet more than a year of a good income has gone by, and they feel like £23k per year is nothing.
It is insane By virtue of being almost shopping-hating recluses, and actively liking DIY, we've managed to escape this mindset.
Hohum, sorry I waffled so much
nanny-now and forever
not at all haize - no more than me
houses are expensive to be sur but i still think it is relative.....when we bought our first house, it was still a whole lot of money and we only had the one wage as i stayed hyome to look after the baby........when we paid all our bills, we only had £50 per month to feed and clothe ourselves so any fripperies were out of the question big time......we had no credit cards or anything so we lived out of the garden and never had a holiday at all for the first 4 or 5 years...the furthest we went was to his parents for the weekend so we could eat for free
now they still have holidays mostly abroad, wouldn't think of staying home
Lizzie
Well I'm 40 and have never owned a house, nor am I likely to. Every time I got close to being about to afford it, the wretched prices went through the roof again.
Having said that, I'm happy renting and ultimately, even if you 'own' a house, it still belongs to the mortgage holder until that's paid off. OH owned houses in his previous life and would like to again, but I don't really see the point. Our rent is way lower than mortgage payments would be per month and either way, we're just forking out to keep a roof over our heads.
Kathy
I've never had a mortgage or owned a house either, or wanted to. Whatever way you choose to keep a roof over your head it's never yours. Even after the mortgage is paid and you supposedly "own the house", try doing any alterations and you have to ask permission, a new road needs to be built, (compulsory purchase order) so is the house REALLY yours? I know rents can be expensive too but at least you're not tied and if you want to move for whatever reasons well, off you go!
I've known people who have struggled to pay a mortgage all their working lives so they could be the proud "owners" of their home. They go to choose double glazing, new extension and a sturdier fence, whatever. Hassle hassle and more hassle and it's not the first time I've heard them say "we'd have been better off renting".
So does stability really exist is this current climate, hmmm, I don't think it does really.
mrutty
Haize wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the income multiples are always lower for couples, when surely two people earning £20k actually take home more than one person earning £40k...
By a long way trust me.
The 40% tax trap is a nightmare. Looking back we'd have been better off having three kids on a low wage and get the tax breaks. Like a mug I've totally busted my a**e so my wife can pretty much stay at home to look after them (she has kept her hand in with various jobs to keep her CV current). Two people bringing in my wage split across the both of them are way better off.
With all things, if you want it you'll find a way of getting it. For me it's been very long hours and hard work. I'm luck in the last 6 months to have had an easy period but there were times when I'd even get calls on holiday.
Haize
Absolutely, mrutty.
Another thing various people keep saying is "we'll have children when we've saved up a bit of money". If you just don't feel ready yet, fine, but that is a really stupid theory. From my observations, if people have £20k in the bank when they have their first child, it is gone pretty quickly, as they want to do everything they can for them. For the ones who had nothing saved, the child still had a bed, good food, decent clothing, and toys they are happy with.
In those circumstances, people spend what they have, and they make do if they don't have so much.
Jamanda
mrutty wrote:
Haize wrote:
I've never been able to figure out why the income multiples are always lower for couples, when surely two people earning £20k actually take home more than one person earning £40k...
By a long way trust me.
The 40% tax trap is a nightmare. Looking back we'd have been better off having three kids on a low wage and get the tax breaks. Like a mug I've totally busted my a**e so my wife can pretty much stay at home to look after them (she has kept her hand in with various jobs to keep her CV current). Two people bringing in my wage split across the both of them are way better off.
With all things, if you want it you'll find a way of getting it. For me it's been very long hours and hard work. I'm luck in the last 6 months to have had an easy period but there were times when I'd even get calls on holiday.
You've got to factor in childcare costs though. When we both worked full time, a huge wack of money went to the childminder, and we both busted a gut to keep the hours as short as possible, so we never actually saw each other. OH being part time now means that we don't have that outgoing and can actually manage on less than half the money between us.
mrutty
Ah but you can now deduct childcare costs as part of the tax return and get a tax credit for them.
As for not see each other, in our case it would be a benefit (and yes I mean it, we have spent 10 years out of 12 only seeing each other at the weekends, me working for home solidly for 6 months has I think she'll agree been a bit much).
With all things life always seems greener for someone else.
alison
I can understand only seeing you at weekends!
Becki
Believe me, I can't wait
I think it was brought home when he came back from moving Mum's stuff and asked if I'd missed him. He'd been away 2/3 days.
No I didn't
Haize
I miss my OH during a single day with him out at work
But then, until a year and a bit ago, we were students, at the same department, with mostly the same lectures, and so on.
I don't think he misses me though The only reason it gets to me is because I have been at home ill for most of the last 6 months, and it is very different when you are occupied, and get to see other living beings
Becki
I did miss him when he was away all week and I only saw him at weekends. He's been here at home 24hrs a day (he never goes out really) for 2 years now and it's driving me to breaking point. I also missed him when he was at a proper 9 -5 type job.
The bloke buying our house described him as Ben Elton on speed. Very perceptive that man
Ask Ali
nanny-now and forever
i must admit that now we have sold the house and live in a tied cottage i hope never to have to buy another one
it came home to me all of a sudden that you bust a gut to buy a house, you pay for it and look forward to your retirement and then eventually you will have to sell it to pay for your old age care or just because you can't keep up with it you have to downsize into something else anyway
it is unlikely that you will ever be able to afford what you really want
and you end up as a box of bits at the local auction because the family will take all the stuff out of the house that they want and send the other suff, the little bits that meant so much to you, to the local auction house
i think the miserable weather is starting to get to me you know.............
Jamanda
mrutty wrote:
Ah but you can now deduct childcare costs as part of the tax return and get a tax credit for them.
As for not see each other, in our case it would be a benefit (and yes I mean it, we have spent 10 years out of 12 only seeing each other at the weekends, me working for home solidly for 6 months has I think she'll agree been a bit much).
With all things life always seems greener for someone else.
It would have been OK if we saw each other at weekends, but Sean had to work weekends and got home at 11pm most nights. We're certainly better off on one lower wage in lots of ways. Will you be changing what you do when you move?
mrutty
nanny wrote:
it came home to me all of a sudden that you bust a gut to buy a house, you pay for it and look forward to your retirement and then eventually you will have to sell it to pay for your old age care or just because you can't keep up with it you have to downsize into something else anyway
See that pees me off no end. Not you Nanny but the fact that now if you do save and pay your own way it goes against you. I've paid my stamp from 16 and bit onwards and when I get old under the current systems the government will sell my house to pay for my care. Some toe rag that has never had a job in their life will get their care for free.
mrutty
Jamanda wrote:
Will you be changing what you do when you move?
Nope I'll just pee people off in a different county
nanny-now and forever
mrutty wrote:
nanny wrote:
it came home to me all of a sudden that you bust a gut to buy a house, you pay for it and look forward to your retirement and then eventually you will have to sell it to pay for your old age care or just because you can't keep up with it you have to downsize into something else anyway
See that pees me off no end. Not you Nanny but the fact that now if you do save and pay your own way it goes against you. I've paid my stamp from 16 and bit onwards and when I get old under the current systems the government will sell my house to pay for my care. Some toe rag that has never had a job in their life will get their care for free.
totally agree mark
it's called socilaism in some circles isn't it?
in essence we are encouraged to save and buy our own place in order to fund the our own funeral...........
Jamanda
mrutty wrote:
Jamanda wrote:
Will you be changing what you do when you move?
Nope I'll just pee people off in a different county
Shurely not?
alison
Mandy, it will be us
nanny-now and forever
alison wrote:
Mandy, it will be us
we all have our crosses to bear alison and you will doubtless get your reward in heaven though of course you would rather have the cash now....
alison
Haize
nanny wrote:
and you end up as a box of bits at the local auction because the family will take all the stuff out of the house that they want and send the other suff, the little bits that meant so much to you, to the local auction house
When we bought our house, it was completely full of stuff, no-one even cared enough to sort through it all! It was so sad finding some things, especially photos. And the relatives got at least $40k out of it, despite not giving a damn about the people.
Of course you can't keep everything, but surely it is good to have a few reminders of people, even if they aren't things you would buy yourself?!
As for the having to move to a smaller house to pay for your life when you are older, or having it all taken away due to going into care, my OH has a plan to not sell this house when we need to go somewhere larger, and then let it out, as a kind of long term saving scheme. Remains to be seen whether it will actually work out like that. And the best intentions in the world to save enough are no match for an unexpected illness that lands you up in care reasonably young, or something.
Ish.
) do expect to be able to continue spending money like water.
What can I say, it is nice to enjoy yourself.
By virtue of being almost shopping-hating recluses, and actively liking DIY, we've managed to escape this mindset.
The only reason it gets to me is because I have been at home ill for most of the last 6 months, and it is very different when you are occupied, and get to see other living beings 
